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Confusion about GM Northstar tightening procedures and lubricants
#1
Hi support team,

I am interested in Part Number: ES 72217
Fel-Pro Head Bolt Set for Buick Lucerne 2006 CXL 4.6L.

Can you please explain what the blue material on the bottom part of the bolt threads is?
Is it a pre-applied sealer?

I read your reply on the following "Head bolt lube and sealants" thread (Support #2 06-05-2015, 03:58 PM):
http://www.felpro-only.com/break_room_fo...=lubricate
"if the bolts have pre-applied sealer, they do not need any lubricants applied to the threads. They do need oil under the bolt heads."

What about the threads, which doesn't have said blue material (upper part of the bolt)? I understand that the bolts should not be installed dry.

I am still confused which "tightening procedure" to use (Cylinder Head Replacement vs. Cylinder Head Installation) and whether to lubricate the TTY bolts threads (at least the upper dry ones) or not (following GM Fastener Notice).


[removed]
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#2
Hi Lucerne,

The blue material is a thread sealant that will also act as a dry lubricant when the head bolts are installed. There is no need to apply any oil to the bolt threads above the blue sealer. You do need to make sure the old blue sealant is cleaned & removed from the block threads. Leaving old sealer in the block can affect the initial torque wrench readings by causing additional friction.

You do need to apply engine oil to the under the bolt head area and the washer. Friction is a plays a huge part of what a torque wrench will “read” when installing fasteners. By leaving the bolt head areas dry, additional friction is created which cause the torque wrench to click off early and thus affect the final clamp load of the joint. On the other hand, the use of the wrong lubricant can also affect when the torque wrench will click off and again affect the final clamp load being applied to the joint. Use engine oil to lube under the bolt head/washer area.

Follow the cylinder head installation procedure (which we had to remove as it is copyright-protected).
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#3
(04-27-2017, 07:01 PM)Support Wrote: Hi Lucerne,

The blue material is a thread sealant that will also act as a dry lubricant when the head bolts are installed. There is no need to apply any oil to the bolt threads above the blue sealer. You do need to make sure the old blue sealant is cleaned & removed from the block threads. Leaving old sealer in the block can affect the initial torque wrench readings by causing additional friction.

You do need to apply engine oil to the under the bolt head area and the washer. Friction is a plays a huge part of what a torque wrench will “read” when installing fasteners. By leaving the bolt head areas dry, additional friction is created which cause the torque wrench to click off early and thus affect the final clamp load of the joint. On the other hand, the use of the wrong lubricant can also affect when the torque wrench will click off and again affect the final clamp load being applied to the joint. Use engine oil to lube under the bolt head/washer area.

Follow the cylinder head installation procedure (which we had to remove as it is copyright-protected).

Smile Rolleyes Shy
I am very satisfied with your response.
Thank you very much!
You are the best unlike your competitors who don't have forums like yours.
Professional and rapid response.

Can you please elaborate furthermore about the blue thread sealant?
I understand the need for lubrication which affects the initial torque wrench readings.
Yet, why said TTY bolts have a sealer applied to the threads?
Is said sealant required for said block threads?
I guess they don't pass through a water jacket and there is no need to prevent corrosion and leaks.
Am I missing anything here?
I guess that a proper lubricant  is just fine for this application e.g. dry film lubricant or synthetic thermoplastic resin or pre-applied anti seize.
Thanks in advance.
Heart Heart Heart
Reply
#4
(04-27-2017, 09:42 PM)Lucerne Wrote: Smile Rolleyes Shy
I am very satisfied with your response.
Thank you very much!
You are the best unlike your competitors who don't have forums like yours.
Professional and rapid response.

Can you please elaborate furthermore about the blue thread sealant?
I understand the need for lubrication which affects the initial torque wrench readings.
Yet, why said TTY bolts have a sealer applied to the threads?
Is said sealant required for said block threads?
I guess they don't pass through a water jacket and there is no need to prevent corrosion and leaks.
Am I missing anything here?
I guess that a proper lubricant  is just fine for this application e.g. dry film lubricant or synthetic thermoplastic resin or pre-applied anti seize.
Thanks in advance.
Heart Heart Heart

Thanks for the kind words, we are always happy to help!

The O.E. decided they wanted a thread sealer applied to the bolts, we are following suit by having a pre-applied sealer on the head bolts. If we did not have anything applied to our bolts, installers might apply whatever they have handy (the wrong sealer/lubricant) or apply too much/too little. A very important reason that the thread sealer is applied is because these are steel bolts going into an aluminum block. Because they are dissimilar metals, corrosion can occur which could result in frozen or broken head bolts.

The proper lubricant for these head bolts is the pre-applied sealer on the threads and engine oil applied to under the bolt heads. The only other lubricant that we would be ok with is the assembly lubricant from a certain manufacturer of aftermarket fasteners and head studs. Dry film lubricant, thermoplastic resin, and anti-seize are not recommended.
Reply
#5
(04-28-2017, 05:31 PM)Support Wrote:
(04-27-2017, 09:42 PM)Lucerne Wrote: Smile Rolleyes Shy
I am very satisfied with your response.
Thank you very much!
You are the best unlike your competitors who don't have forums like yours.
Professional and rapid response.

Can you please elaborate furthermore about the blue thread sealant?
I understand the need for lubrication which affects the initial torque wrench readings.
Yet, why said TTY bolts have a sealer applied to the threads?
Is said sealant required for said block threads?
I guess they don't pass through a water jacket and there is no need to prevent corrosion and leaks.
Am I missing anything here?
I guess that a proper lubricant  is just fine for this application e.g. dry film lubricant or synthetic thermoplastic resin or pre-applied anti seize.
Thanks in advance.
Heart Heart Heart

Thanks for the kind words, we are always happy to help!

The O.E. decided they wanted a thread sealer applied to the bolts, we are following suit by having a pre-applied sealer on the head bolts. If we did not have anything applied to our bolts, installers might apply whatever they have handy (the wrong sealer/lubricant) or apply too much/too little. A very important reason that the thread sealer is applied is because these are steel bolts going into an aluminum block. Because they are dissimilar metals, corrosion can occur which could result in frozen or broken head bolts.

The proper lubricant for these head bolts is the pre-applied sealer on the threads and engine oil applied to under the bolt heads. The only other lubricant that we would be ok with is the assembly lubricant from a certain manufacturer of aftermarket fasteners and head studs. Dry film lubricant, thermoplastic resin, and anti-seize are not recommended.


Thanks a lot for your willing and eager to help.
I love to learn from the clever and educated guys.
Thanks for mentioning the corrosion issue  Idea

I am very curious and have just read some articles about passivation and corrosion.
Apparently, aluminum is a very active material and therefore it is very sensitive to galvanic corrosion when coming in touch with steel.

Therefore, I wonder why the pre-applied blue thread sealant is not being applied to all the bolt threads (above and below the current application) Confused 
You have just mentioned the issue of applying too much/too little, yet I don't see any 'too much' issue when it comes to preventing galvanic corrosion in aluminum steel contact. I guess there are ways to increase the missing friction as needed  Idea

I also noticed some red material under the bolt head area. Can you please also explain what said material is?

In addition, I saw some other bolts with other green material pre-applied on the threads.
Can you kindly tell the difference from the blue thread sealant?

Once again, thanks in advance.
You are great!  Heart
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#6
(04-29-2017, 08:32 PM)Lucerne Wrote: Thanks a lot for your willing and eager to help.
I love to learn from the clever and educated guys.
Thanks for mentioning the corrosion issue  Idea

I am very curious and have just read some articles about passivation and corrosion.
Apparently, aluminum is a very active material and therefore it is very sensitive to galvanic corrosion when coming in touch with steel.

Therefore, I wonder why the pre-applied blue thread sealant is not being applied to all the bolt threads (above and below the current application) Confused 
You have just mentioned the issue of applying too much/too little, yet I don't see any 'too much' issue when it comes to preventing galvanic corrosion in aluminum steel contact. I guess there are ways to increase the missing friction as needed  Idea

I also noticed some red material under the bolt head area. Can you please also explain what said material is?

In addition, I saw some other bolts with other green material pre-applied on the threads.
Can you kindly tell the difference from the blue thread sealant?

Once again, thanks in advance.
You are great!  Heart

Hi Lucerne,

The blue sealant doesn't go all the way up the threads because it will get “distributed” on the threads that are going into the block as the bolts are installed. Not all of the threads go into the block, and using too much sealant means the extra would have to go somewhere, and it can cause the bolts to "lock" up if it's below the bolt, or can press out at the head gasket.

The red material is another sealer/ lubricant we apply to the bolts. Therefore, no oil is needed under the bolt heads in this case.

The green material is another type of thread sealer or locker that we apply depending on the application. We also have white, red and orange sealers that we apply as well. Different applications call for different types of thread sealant. We always use the correct type for each application.
Reply
#7
(05-01-2017, 05:28 PM)Support Wrote:
(04-29-2017, 08:32 PM)Lucerne Wrote: Thanks a lot for your willing and eager to help.
I love to learn from the clever and educated guys.
Thanks for mentioning the corrosion issue  Idea

I am very curious and have just read some articles about passivation and corrosion.
Apparently, aluminum is a very active material and therefore it is very sensitive to galvanic corrosion when coming in touch with steel.

Therefore, I wonder why the pre-applied blue thread sealant is not being applied to all the bolt threads (above and below the current application) Confused 
You have just mentioned the issue of applying too much/too little, yet I don't see any 'too much' issue when it comes to preventing galvanic corrosion in aluminum steel contact. I guess there are ways to increase the missing friction as needed  Idea

I also noticed some red material under the bolt head area. Can you please also explain what said material is?

In addition, I saw some other bolts with other green material pre-applied on the threads.
Can you kindly tell the difference from the blue thread sealant?

Once again, thanks in advance.
You are great!  Heart

Hi Lucerne,

The blue sealant doesn't go all the way up the threads because it will get “distributed” on the threads that are going into the block as the bolts are installed. Not all of the threads go into the block, and using too much sealant means the extra would have to go somewhere, and it can cause the bolts to "lock" up if it's below the bolt, or can press out at the head gasket.

The red material is another sealer/ lubricant we apply to the bolts. Therefore, no oil is needed under the bolt heads in this case.

The green material is another type of thread sealer or locker that we apply depending on the application. We also have white, red and orange sealers that we apply as well. Different applications call for different types of thread sealant. We always use the correct type for each application.

Thanks for the details.
I hope I'm not bothering you.

About the red sealer/lubricant, do you mean that no oil is needed at all i.e under the bolt head area and the washer as well?
Reply
#8
(05-01-2017, 10:13 PM)Guest Wrote: Thanks for the details.
I hope I'm not bothering you.

About the red sealer/lubricant, do you mean that no oil is needed at all i.e under the bolt head area and the washer as well?

Lucerne,

We're happy to help! No oil should be applied to an area of the bolt that has something pre-applied to it (in this case, the threads and under the head of the bolt). If there is an area that will contact the head or block that doesn't have a pre-applied sealer or lubricant (such as under the washers, where they would meet the cylinder head), a tiny bit of clean oil should be applied.
Reply
#9
Thanks for the kind support.
I learnt a lot.
Reply


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